Welcome to the relationship recovery podcast hosted by Jessica Knight, a certified life coach who specializes in narcissistic and emotional abuse. This podcast is intended to help you identify manipulative and abusive behavior, set boundaries with yourself and others and heal the relationship with yourself, so you can learn to love in a healthy way. Hello, and thank you so much for being here. I've been... I don't know how to say this.
I've been going through a lot. And I think that 1 thing that I'm realizing is that I've spent probably most of my life trying to wonder if everybody in my life was crazy or if it was just me. And I've been in therapy for a really long time over 20 years at this point and as well as coaching, as well as going through certification programs and all this stuff and, like, my conclusion is that, no, I'm not crazy. But 1, there's always things to work on. Like and 2, a lot of people are not doing their work in the world.
A lot of people don't do what they need to do. A lot of people in the world do not look at their own behaviors and how they affect people, and that can lead a lot of us to think and feel that we are crazy. That it must be us because we're the self person. You wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you weren't trying to understand what was going on in something either in you in your relationship and your partner and the dynamic in the dynamic of somebody who's close to you, Nobody stumbles upon this podcast and is like, oh, emotional abuse that looks like a good idea. You're here because it matters.
And because you want to understand. I'm gonna go ahead and believe that if I was to sit here and tell you, you know what? You're the emotionally abusive person here as hard as that would be to hear. I trust and believe that you would listen. But I'm not here to tell you that.
I'm here to tell you that if you feel like you're spending your entire life wondering if it's you and if you're crazy, that you likely are not. And it's likely that a lot of people in your life or we just focus on relationships, a lot of your romantic partners are most likely not doing their work. It is most likely that there are things coming up in your relationship that on the surface might be forgiven as emotionally abusive the behaviors, such as a trauma response. In insecurity, outburst based on triggers. We are all still responsible for the impact we have the boundaries that we set and that we respect and the role that we have in relationships.
And I think sometimes it's really hard to understand what emotional maturity is because likely, and most often, we are dealing with somebody who is like, really smart. You know, like a lot of emotionally abusive people are in the legal field, law enforcement, play a lot of narcissist or doctors. Like, a lot of these people you look at, and you're like, oh, they're smart. They must be mature. That doesn't mean that they're emotionally mature.
And some of the biggest warning signs that I see, especially in the beginning are those that have to do with emotional and maturity, meaning like, lack of boundaries and difficulty with conflict. I guess a very quick definition of emotional imma is when somebody can't recognize or control their emotions in an age appropriate way, which can look like emotional outburst, so they might or react quickly to a trigger without actually thinking about it. You know an example of this might be like, so say, You guys are banter, and you say a joke. And instead of going, that 1 hurt. Please don't say that.
They react to it. And even if they react because I've definitely been guilty of reacting and being like, Oh my god. That wasn't funny. Why would you say that I then have the ability to take a step back and say, I'm sorry. I really reacted about that, and here's why.
They get right to the blame game. They're mad, you need to then make them feel better. It also manifests lack of self awareness, meaning that they're not aware of how they show up. Very often, they might say something like, well, I didn't intend that. Doesn't mean that their impact wasn't harmful that the impact wasn't huge.
Intention means nothing. If the impact of what's going on is killing you. It also can look as a lack of emotional depth. And now a lot of emotionally abusive people, especially, I've seen this a lot lately that there's, like... And I've done a podcast on this before because I was so wrapped up in it for a while.
There's, like, this irrational abuser that can come through, and they seem like they have a lot of emotional depth they want to have conversations, they are advocating for their feelings. But it only goes so far as they are able to breath with their needs are. Therefore, it only goes as far as they are able to control the narrative. Therefore, the emotional depth is only on 1 side. And now you might be looking at this or listening to this and thinking.
Oh, crap. Like, I totally shut down sometimes. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is the emotional death comes from a place. Of, I am so curious about these feelings only so far as they benefit me.
Only so far as I get to explain my side. That's emotionally immature. And now just because we have a side of us that might find it hard to hear some things or find it hard to sit with things, like, typically, what I notice when that comes up is it's usually when, somebody else is only sharing to prove a point, but when it goes the opposite way when it's our turn, to share the really hurtful things, we can't share. So that leaves 1 side being really shamed. And the other side on unloading which is also not emotionally mature.
They also might experience like just the surface level, emotions, anger, rage, sad, but not the underlying feeling that you can actually work on, like, frustration, desperation, I also think that a lot of times an emotional immature person doesn't know how to regulate themselves. They don't know how to take a step back and say, oh, I'm not okay. This is a methane. And I think back sometimes to when this was many years ago. Gosh.
This was 10 years ago. When I used to come home, I used to take this... Train. And when I got home, my ex husband, he'd be home, like already and probably home all day. I think he was unemployed at that point, and he'd be like, hi.
How are you? And I would just be, like, I just got off this hour long train where I had to stand the entire time. In, like, a sa can and be, like, and I was like, I need 5 minutes. And I would just sort of, like, head down, walk into the bedroom try and change my clothes, wash my face, get water, and then I was ready to be a person. And we eventually talked about it, And I eventually said, you know, look, after that train ride, I just feel like a piece of trash and, I had a walk, like, I don't know, like, 10 minutes.
In whatever weather there was. And I was like, look, I am just not a person when I come home. And I need just 10 minutes. Like, it doesn't mean I'm not, like, happy to see you. Which is like a whole other category, I wasn't very happy to see him.
But, like, if I had continued to be emotionally immature about that. What I would have done. Is say, what the hell is wrong with you? I just worked all day. Can't you give me a minute?
Rather than realizing that there's somebody on the other end of whatever I am doing and needing to try and just like, set the tone, communicate. Right? How he receives it or doesn't receive it, That's on him. If he goes, well, I expect you to do this, well, it's like, well, I am a full person, But what I can do, you know, when I remember doing it was I communicated. Look when I come home, I just need a few minutes.
This is new. I previously walked home. I liked that. This is hard. I'm getting used to it.
And the reason that I am talking about this is because severe signs of emotional maturity, go hand in hand with abuse. Here are some common signs that we might see. 1 of the biggest concerns that I have is regarding empathy because this could be a really big red flag that would cause emotional harm and while they may not be intending to hurt others, it can be a precursor for a lot of abusive of behaviors because they are not stepping outside of themselves to care for the other person. And this is really due to their lack of understanding of how their behaviors affect other people. Without empathy, an emotional immature person will convince themselves that they're the 1 who is wrong in any argument, instead of taking ownership for their actions.
And just to be clear, ownership does not mean I own my parts. But you did, it also doesn't mean I'm sorry for everything I did. That's not an apology. I believe the third podcast I ever did was about apologies. I'm sorry for everything is the worst apology that I've ever heard.
And I never wanna hear it again. An apology is when you take ownership of your actions. And what I'm talking about here is that they don't take ownership of their actions. Ownership of your actions is taking ownership of your actions. It's hearing that the other person has a feeling of thought that they're hurt and listening, owning your part.
Here's an example recently this example came up with 1 of my clients, and I'm gonna para rephrase it just to keep their privacy, but it was... Like, I own my parts, but you and then went down the line. You did this. You did this. You did this.
You've been doing this all week, and you've been doing that, and then she's like, no I haven't. What are you talking about? Like, and she's, you know, my client is the female, and she's stepping back and thinking, like, Like, what did I do? You know, when in our session, we take a step back and we look at? Well, what was going on?
And she's like, It was a normal freaking week. I have no idea. And we go through, like this and this and this, and she's actually telling me all these things that happened that she never even communicated to him because he was not in a place to hear it. She was, like, he was sick, and then he had it like, this reaction to this medication, but then there was... This snow day, and I really couldn't get over to his house because I had to work all day, and I had my kid home and, like, she's going down this, you know, down everything that happened.
And I'm starting to have all this empathy for, like, how hard things month sounded like they were for her, and her way of handling it was holding space for him, But she was really honest that she couldn't meet his needs. She even shared a few texts where she told him that, like, I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry you're not feeling well. I can drop off a Covid test. You know, is there anything that you want me to order you for insta cart.
I am slammed today. You know, I... Or whatever was going on, And this caused the biggest fight. And in any of the repair conversations they were having, He was saying, I own my part, but you. I own my part, but you.
I own my part, but you, and she's just taking a step back and like, probably defending herself, but when we spoke about it, what I called out to her was, the sounds like all he wanted, was to be right. And she was like, yeah. And she was like, but if he is. And if I give into that, then every time that this pattern comes up, it will be about how I didn't meet his needs, and I was like, exactly. And so she pushed for a conversation that would be like, look, I want to hear your parts.
I want to hear your parts. I don't know that I could have shown up differently for you, but if I could have, I wanna understand. But I'd also like you to understand what was going on for me and how I felt stuck here because I had stuff going on too, and he refused to listen, because the empathy was 1 side. He thinks he's an empathetic person, but he's not. At the time of recording this, This argument is still going back and forth because she held that, I guess that boundary of, I won't take all the blame.
I will take my blame. But you can own your part 2. And I think what she wants them to own is, Yeah. I totally wasn't seeing the last 3 days. Clearly, I was sick.
I was frustrated. I was stressed. I had this medication reaction. Like, it definitely wasn't myself. And like, you were stressed too and in your own world and we couldn't really connect.
And because of my insecurity and my anxiety, I started to spiral and I finger pointed, and I probably created a narrative in my head that you didn't care instead of seeing how much you did care. And then she could say, I'm really sorry that I didn't show up for you. I tried to hold space. You know, for what you needed, there was actually a lot more going on for me. Then I told you, maybe in the future, we can find a way that, like, I can express to you a bit of what's been going on for me without you feeling like you need to take it on or me feeling like I'm a unloading on you at a time that you can't receive it.
That probably would have led to a really mature, conversation, but that's not where it went. And that's when we get to abuse to control because the person who is emotionally mature All they wanna do is control the narrative. They wanna control you. They wanna control your taking ownership, and they won't stop until they win. And I'll be honest, I've been working with her for 9 months.
This patterns come up a lot. This was just the example that she was sick of, like, just giving in because it puts you on this other path? Right? Like, where's is your integrity then? How can you take care of yourself if like, you're just like, you know, that doesn't mean like, sometimes we just sort of, like, fall on the sword just to move on, but this seemed...
This was bigger, and it seems bigger, and we've seen this cycle happen a lot. And, You're listening to this. I love you and I'm sending you so much grace for handling this. I have been exactly exactly exactly where you are. But this brings up another point of how emotional maturity can lead to abusive behaviors, and this is around boundaries.
Does your partner expect your boundaries? What are healthy boundaries? So I always say this. A boundary typically is set to keep somebody in your life. If you didn't want them in your life, it's another kind of boundary.
I have a whole course on boundaries with abusive of people and that's to create enough space so that you can begin to freaking thank for yourself. Boundaries, and relationships. With people in your life are typically set to keep them in your life. When I set a boundary with somebody I care about it's not for me to push them away It's for me to keep them here. When I would tell my partner, I need space, I need saturday to just kinda like, get my shit together, it wasn't to keep him out of my life.
It was to keep him in my life. It was to keep my oxygen mask on. It was so that I could show better in the relationship. A sign of emotional maturity is when somebody takes your boundaries as a personal attacker or become offended. And so if you say, you can't talk to me that way, and they take that as an attack.
If you say, I need the night and literally use mine. I need Saturday, and then there's a consequence, either stonewall. Passive aggression, protest behaviors, punishments, or even the boundary of setting a boundary without communicating it, and then expecting somebody to understand and respect it. And then when they don't blaming them for it, extremely emotionally immature and I see that a lot. This 1, a lot of people struggle with, but it's this inability to go deep.
And I'm gonna try and explain it the best that I can. But people who are emotionally immature, they keep things superficial and service level. And now you might be thinking, No. We have deep conversations. I know so much about them.
Okay? Are they able to talk about why they were upset about something? And what they wanna see differently and tap into the part of themselves where they know you wouldn't wanna hurt them? Or is it more like happening around the surface and not integrating into their body before they talk at you about things. Some people are unable to go deeper into their thoughts and feelings, and it could be due to their trauma.
Sometimes it's neuro divergence, sometimes it's culturally, that's what they have been adapted to do. So it's definitely a very complex thing to think about. But the way I think about it is that I personally want to be in a relationship where our hertz can get resolved. I've been in too many abusive situations where I have been told to think what they want me to think. I wanna be in a place where there is a deep knowing and a curiosity, not to say that I will know this other person better than they know themselves.
I don't believe that we do. I will I think we know ourselves best, but in a sense of, like, I am here and the... To share, and I want to have that connection. And if you want to have it deep connection if you want to be in a place to work on these things. Somebody who doesn't have that, it might not work for you because where it might end up going is nothing ever gets resolved.
It only gets resolved so insofar as they will resolve it for another sign of emotional and maturity turned of abuses is when they have difficulty come controlling their emotions because it likely, leads to blame on you. Anybody can have a bad day. I have bad days, but look at a pattern of the outburst? Are they appropriate for the situation or moments or do they see out of control? Are they unable to calm down?
Are they unable to acknowledge that it has nothing to do with you most of the time? Or is it finger pointing? Is it reactive often, an emotionally a mature person will make up ideas about what we think and about who we are, and about, like, what we are what our intention is instead of asking us? You know, you think about, like, you're cleaning something or, like, you're deep cleaning your home and you're just focused on that and you might have had phones on has absolutely nothing to do with the other person. You're just, like, focused, maybe, like, you just cleaned something that was like, ic, headphones and like, then it's like, oh, why you so mad.
What happened now? Nothing. I'm just cleaning Oh, so are you mad that I didn't help you clean No. I'm not mad at all. I'm just cleaning.
Everything is a trigger. And a mature person has the ability to say I am triggered and I'm not open. K. 1 of the biggest signs of my growth, my own personal growth was for me to be able to walk away from situations when I was feeling triggered. The other person didn't know was like it.
But if I was in a a tough conversation with the partner, and I would say, I'm not okay. I need a second. That was my way of saying I need to calm down this feeling inside. Another question is, do they struggle with conflict? It can be from avoiding conflict at all costs, which does include avoiding, working through conflict.
Or do they have conflict with everybody? And then, of course, there's usually a caveat of, like, well, everyone sucks. You know, and then you're just kinda taking that step back going like, what do I, like, it's another sign that somebody is unwilling to look inside, at the way that they show up. And if somebody's unwilling to look side at the way that they show up what that leads to is the superiority of that they are right, everyone else is wrong, and it's extremely toxic and extremely hard to move through, and it's... That creates a power dynamic and a relationship and a power dynamic that is really unhealthy and I don't see a way out of that power dynamic.
Like, when I envision that power dynamic, all I see is walking around in a circle and being unable to walk, like, outside of that circle of, like, I how do we actually resolve things, and I am someone that doesn't wanna settle for a sub par relationship? I would like to have a deep relationship with somebody who, we are able to work through these things and move forward. That is the world in which I want my daughter to grow up in. And I think I would have settled a lot of times for other things, but I think it's important to think about is this a game of power and control like I'm fighting with a child? Or is this an adult relationship where we are growing and healing?
Repairing. I want to say that if the emotional maturity moments are moments if they are these, like, small things if the person reflects on it and they're able to move through it, that is different than this being a pattern of behavior. I would look at this is this a pattern of behavior? Can we see this in a lot of their behaviors? 1 of my new favorite peoples, Lindsey gibson, Lindsey and writes about emotional immature adults, and she says, 1 of the core characteristics of an emotionally immature adult is Ips No matter what you say.
They won't hear you. And that means like, no matter how good you say something, they won't hear you. And no matter how bad you see something. They won't hear you. They don't wanna hear you.
All they can see is, like, what's right in front of them. And so this is probably like the tip of the onion, iceberg, whatever. And so if you are feeling like this is in your relationship if you are feeling like this is abuse. I encourage you to listen to my podcast that I will link in the show notes about the cycle of abuse and start to see if That is what you are in right now, and it's always okay for you to reconsider the relationship. It's always okay for you to ask yourself is this what I want.
Is this what I need. Sometimes, you really need to just talk it through at someone and to be able to just nail down what some of these behaviors are, figure out are these in moments or is this a pattern and be able to figure out how to move forward. I hope that this was helpful. I really hope this was helpful. You can find me on Instagram at emotional abuse coach.
You can email me at jessica night coaching dot com. And you can find me at emotional abuse coach dot com. And as always, if you want support if there's a time that you'd like to book that is not available on my website. Always feel free to reach out and just remember that you don't have to settle for anything that is hurting you.
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