Breaking the Cycle of Narcissistic Abuse: Understanding the Discard with Ben Taylor

Ben Taylor joins us again for an in-depth discussion on one of the most bewildering and painful aspects of narcissistic relationships: The Discard. In this episode, we define the Discard, discuss the various forms it can take, and try to understand the "why" behind it. Ben, a self aware Narcissist, helps us understand the complexity of The Discard and why IT IS NOT PERSONAL.

You can learn more about Ben here: https://www.rawmotivations.com/

Transcript

Welcome to the relationship recovery podcast. Hosted by Jessica Knight, a certified life coach who specializes in narcissistic and emotional abuse. This podcast is intended to help you identify manipulative and abusive behavior, Set boundaries with yourself and others and heal the relationship with yourself, so you can learn to love in a healthy way. Hello And as always, thank you so much for being here. Today, I have a special guest.

I have Ben Taylor back on the podcast. I believe this is the fourth podcast with us, and he's here to talk about a topic that I truthfully didn't know as much about as I do now, but it is about the discard. And the discard is something that happens in narcissistic abuse when it's basically, the relationship ends in your left feeling lost and confused and frustrated and gas lit and trauma bonded, and it can be 1 of the most painful things to go through and it's 1 of those things that just doesn't make sense. Like it's 1 of those things that just does not make sense. And it's not meant to make sense.

Right? Like, this stuff is not... It's meant to be normal. And so in the context of narcissistic abuse, it is 1 of those things that happens a lot and it has gives us words to talk about, but in the grand scheme of things of healthy relationship. It is absolutely not normal.

And just to clarify Ben will end up clarifying this in the episode. The discard is an abrupt ending or abandonment of a relationship by the Narcissist. And so this is usually after dev and taking any benefits that they desired from that person. You might be left with bills to pay, tickets to cancel things to sell a home to pay for, a child to share with this person, a life that's gone. And many times it's because the narcissist no longer can get that emotional high from their partner.

Everything starts to become worse, and then they're gone. And it's something that is like the most horrific, d demeanor and awful things to experience. And so that being said, you know, when you listen to this, the purpose of this episode is really to help you understand, what you're going through, why it feels so shitty and what you can do to begin to make sense of it. And at the end of this episode, Ben gives a really amazing tool to work through the story that you're telling ourselves and beginning to craft a new story. And I actually did his activity.

At the end of the episode, I'll also share what came up for me when I did it. As always, you are not alone in unless you have support and just to clarify, my tendency relationships was to hang on into the bitter end until I was, like, basically dying in the relationship before I left. And then I was discarded and I was discarded once. Usually, like... It was like, a abusive abusive abusive abuse then I laid.

So with the discard, I remember feeling like Like, I will do anything to get this person back right now, but they're not good for me. So I felt so trauma bonded. I felt so uncomfortable. I felt so lost. And it took me a bit.

It probably took me about 3 weeks, but this also happened when I had a lot of knowledge and just didn't see it. So once I was past that little period of, like, pure shock I started to go through and look at all the behaviors, and then I started educating myself. About a lot of the signs I was seeing, which were so different than signs I saw before. Because like I said, it was different, it was dizzy. And if you've been discarded, I'm going to imagine that you may have googled what a narcissist is, What kind of narcissist says there are.

And I'm sure you may have seen that they're are different kinds. And so sometimes it's so covert, you don't know until you're out. So the education that you can get will help so much. Understanding them doesn't fix them. Understanding them is not gonna bring them back.

Understanding them is not gonna make this a healthy relationship. You know, but understanding what happened will help you d it, which is probably the thing I care about the most is that you are not taking this with you and that you're not up at night wondering, the Was it you? Could you have loved more? Could you have done more? Could you have been better?

If you had just folded their laundry didn't say anything, Would it be different? If you had just never invited it told them that they need to come with food to dear parents house would it be fine. If you just like, did an ask them to do anything for a week or, like, asked them to take care of their responsibilities, would it have been okay. If you loved more forgave more, did more. The answer is no.

You know, But it wasn't you. And I... Without knowing you without knowing your story, I can tell you If this episode resonates with you. I you're like oh my god, that's what I just went through. I can tell you it was not you.

But I have also been up for many nights wondering if it was me and if I had just done all these things and if I had just if I had just if I had just. If I had just been another person. If I had just not been myself if I just didn't have my boundaries with this I've gone differently. And the truth is is that it will always end here. Because a Narcissist will always keep upping the expectations.

And so with that said, I hope this episode is helpful. And at the end, Ben touches on how you can find him. And I highly suggest that you reach out to him if his work resonates with you. And if you want to reach out to me, To begin to heal to work on healing. You can always find me an emotional abuse coach dot com.

On Instagram at emotional abuse code, and you can email me at jessica at jessica night dot com. Hi, Ben. Thank you for coming back. Thanks for having me back. Appreciate it.

Yeah. Can you share with us who you are and what you do? Yeah. No. Absolutely.

So my my name is Ben Taylor. I'm a software narcissist on this platform to help provide awareness. Of narcissistic and abuse, and ultimately to help women who are trapped in toxic narcissistic abusive of relationships, find freedom of mentally, emotionally and physically, so they can actually move forward in their growth and development into who they're called to be. So I provide a lot of different insights on different social media channels and opportunities to be able to run faster with people that work with me or work in the coaching space that want to continue to grow and develop themselves. From that face of being trapped to ultimately freedom.

Yeah. And I think that the 1 of the most valuable things that you offer. On social media channels that sort of led me to you a few years ago was that you share a lot of education about the ins and outs of what happens in narcissistic abuse so that we can begin to d it when it's happening to us. Right. And so today, I wanted to kinda go up of that and dive into the narcissistic card and being in my role as a coach I get, a lot of people that will reach out to me?

I'm, like, how do I heal from a discard? You know, sometimes they'll get a Dm that says just that. And I guess the first thing that comes to mind when I see a question like that, and I don't reply with this, but I guess this where my thought goes. It's like, that the card is actually part of the cycle of narcissistic abuse. And so I wanna dive into the card today because I think it's so confusing and right before we got on, You know, I shared that it's like, 1 of those things that it's, like, so hard to not take personal or, like a personal attack or, like, there's something wrong with us.

And so can you just explain what the card is. Yeah. So sometimes the discard can have different looks or different appearances. In how the person is discarded. And when we talk about the narcissistic cycle, typically discard would be the third Sometimes the final, but often oftentimes the third phase in the narcissistic cycle of ideal devaluation, devaluation, discard, and a lot of times, I'll add recycle.

When the Nurses comes back and Hoover back into their relationship. But the card can have many different appearances or many different looks it could be him just completely ghost. And there's no communication. You have no clue what happened. All of a sudden he was there, and then all of a sudden, he wasn't.

It could be him breaking up and communicating that of, like, I don't want this relationship anymore. I don't think that this is working out It could be I'm saying, I'm not good for you. I think this is something that you deserve better and kind of playing almost like a victim role and pushing you away, and then sometimes that leaves the door open to... Oh, let's still be friends. And then there could be reversed this card where he's making your life hell so that you leave him and that actually the intent for him to do.

So I say that to be able to say, like discard being the third piece of the cycle, sometimes can appear and look different ways. It's At the end of it, you have you who has been in a relationship, and then you no longer have that person and you've been let go discarded, like, ghost and you're left alone kind of wondering and thinking, what just happened? Like, Mh did did this person care about? Did they not care about me? And hey...

That's where all the thoughts start to cycle up and to spin off of what in the world did I just go through what just happened that this person just dumped me, like, a sack of potatoes. Right? And all of a sudden, you have no clue, and that's where it feels super personal, but to answer the question, like, discard, third stage of the narcissistic cycle and this aspect of the other person. Disappearing, leaving, rejecting, letting go, but a lot of times more under abrupt or very blunt or kurt type of way that produces a lot of questions. Mh.

And a lot of confusion of what has happened? Yeah. And when you were going through those, like, the the ghost, communicating we're done, I'm not good for you. Deserve better, either or even reversing it some... I've seen it where all of those things happen, almost like, maybe not at once but, like, within a few days.

I had this 1 client or... Where he was like, trying to do the reverse discard for, like, it was like, kicked almost, like, came out of nowhere. And then she was like, what the hell is going on, and then it turned into the victim, of, like, I'm not good for you. So she was, like, totally spent, like, exhausted, and I was, like, then I was like, I'm not good for you. You deserve better, or you should just leave, and then it was, like, Okay.

Actually, I'm done, and you actually did all these things. I'm fine. You're the 1 who's not okay. You should go get help, and then it was ghost. And she was, like, what the hell just happened.

And I think, like, you know, I think it's important to name that this can happen from a very... A relationship or a very long 1. Like, this has happened in marriages as well. So people are just done. I'm curious.

It happened as short as, like, a 2 month relationship or a 39 year relationship. We've seen it either way. We're all of a sudden the person just, like, almost looks like they snap in 1 sense. And just is all of a sudden out. What is going on for the narcissist when they do that?

What are they protecting within themselves when they just act in that way? When they're led to do the discard. So I'm not gonna speak to, like, the 39 year marriage because like that that, I think different. Factors, But Still, like, a 1 year relationship. That version.

Right Right. And in general, like, the shorter, like, 3 months to 5 years, like that kind of thing. Like, those type of relationships, Typically, there can be several different things. There could be this piece of exposure of you're getting close to the truth of exposing who he act. She is.

So it's easier to discard than it is to own that. Sometimes there could be the piece of there's a cycle that he might already have inside the relationship where he's already kind of pushed people away kind of the back and forth and it's the next step or there's another person and Narcissist is abuse and a lot of what I work with, are women who have been cheated on. Right? Because that's a lot of times what is ingrained in there. Sometimes there's the piece of the discard where it's like this mental piece of you're getting too close to me vulnerable.

An inside a relationship with a Narcissist, a nurses can only go so deep before they actually have to work on inner stuff. And so it's typically this topical relationship with lots of highs and lows in the topical section, but not into the deep. Heartfelt section, that he's typically just doing the words and actions to be able to get what he wants. And so when sometimes it gets closer of, hey, this relationship needs to progress, It's like, and I'm out because that's gonna take a deeper level of vulnerability or that's gonna take love to a whole another place of truth and honesty and vulnerability. To be able to have the relationship work.

So in instead like, nope out. It's hard because there's not 1 answer to the discard. Like, there's so many different versions of what's happening. I think the best way to kinda sum up every single version that we can con talk about and Narcissist is doing a discard. And this probably the 1 that most people are gonna struggle with is the discard not about you.

Yeah. That's the weirdest piece with it. Because inside the moment, there's typically something that the Nurses is, like, I'm gonna get exposed, I have to get vulnerable something has to change inside of me, I wanna go be with someone else and the list goes on and on, and they're all eye based. Like, they're based, dawn, like what I want in the moment, not on the other person. Now in order to make himself feel better, it has to be about the other person.

So If I'm gonna discard you, I'm like, hey, I have to change this around so that in my mind, I'm not the bad person. So what can I paint in a picture? That makes you look like the bad person makes you look abusive makes you look like I can't be with you anymore because of what you've been doing to me, etcetera, etcetera, so that I feel better about myself. And it's hard because people view that as a personal attack, when in reality, it actually has nothing to do with the other person, it has all to do with the narcissist in preserving whether that's internally his image, whether that's externally his image whether that's just the mindset of that he's always writes. There's a lit of different pieces, but that falls into the aspect of discard and oftentimes a couple of reasons, whether why it's coming up, sometimes what it's stemming from and then, ultimately, the piece of him just wanting to pull back for him, not for any other reason, Yeah.

I think a lot of what you said was really helpful in validating because, like you said, people see it as a personal attack, but there's this, like, fear that I'm hearing you talk about around, like, they don't wanna be exposed, which I think when like, on Instagram and other places when we talk about the discard, it's usually in relationship to a new supply, which odd... I mean, like you said, you work with a lot of women that have been cheated on. I work with a lot of women that sometimes that's in there, but it's not always. Like, the card happens actually in those other 2 categories of, like, they've been exposed, you know, in a way of, like, whole, like, you know... Right.

They've been together, a year or so. So the wheels have fallen off of the bus and you're, like, Mh. Why are these wheels off the bus and then they're projecting on, and then you're, like, okay. I'm not all these things. Or I didn't do that or like, what do you mean?

Or, like, that's on how it went, you know, so there's gas lighting and then they can call out the gas or are they... Try and take care of themselves, and then that's usually when they find me, and then we start to put pieces together, and then mh. While this person is getting stronger and sticking to their guns this person bolts in some way. And I think if that's an important point, and I'm glad that you you framed it because I think when we we focus on, oh, they just need new supply. It's like, and I want you to correct me because you're the expert in this area is that, like, it feels like the supply actually could just be like themselves.

Like, they have recreated this story, and that new story that they created where now they feel empowered to leave is the reason why they're like, okay, all of this wasn't working. I'm not, like, we're not going down to these levels. I need to maintain this sense of self. Some Gone, and my new supply is me continuing the story as I go on in the world. That's interesting.

What I was say from my perspective, which obviously is just my world and my perspective. Yeah. It would be I don't see a lot of narcissist that want to be alone without some form of supply. Supply doesn't have to be a person. But typically, Typically, you're not going to see a Narcissist be their own supply because they don't have the self validation piece to actually validate themselves.

Yeah I just want... I'm gonna clarify clarify that. I agree I totally agree with you. When I said supply, and I should clarified this before. But when I said supply, I was thinking it about it in that way as a new person, but I'm really glad you just said what you said.

That is part of what I was trying to get to. So maybe it's not that they feel it that they're like, oh, like, I'm the new supply. It's more like, I'm not worrying about all this other shows worrying about this relationship or focus on or thinking about or, like, trying to maneuver around, but now my supply is either spending. This or now it's going to be work or and tell myself or, like, whatever it could be. That's sort of what I meant is like, it didn't have to be a person.

It could be a new focus that they have that they're putting energy into that they could have had energy into the entire time and the relationship But now it's... Say most of the time, it would be energy and do something that would either fall under a category of... Some type of addictive nature or Yeah. Would fall under some category of still people interaction. Because a lot of supply might not be another person per s, but it's still always going to be reflected back to image and whether that's image internally that image can't be validated without external force.

So... In that regard, if it's like, oh, I'm gonna throw myself into work, Yeah. Because he's getting supply off of being successful in work and people noticing that, him looking like the good person and being this successful entrepreneur. There's this piece of the supply that might not be necessarily a person, but it is still coming from... Validation, exclamation, Like, oh, like, he's doing so well in this which still comes from people.

Like, you don't have a wall being like, hey, good job to today. You know? Like, it's it's still coming from people and that regard. And then you can have different pieces of it being, like, addictive in nature, as far as maybe, like, spending or gambling or things like that at But the majority of times it's still centered around people and validation. And so just to clarify part of it.

I don't see a lot of narcissist. That are solo narcissist. Like, you don't see out Narcissist as a hermit. Right? Because at that point, there's not validation and they don't have the own internal validation.

So typically, a supply is going to be a person or something that's still associated with people that's making him... Himself feel better about himself, but not necessarily his own self validating himself. Does that make sense? Yeah. That makes sense.

It's like, there's... They'll all of the things that their supply is rooted in is in validation in some way. And so, like, even if they had you know, say they went and spent money on, like, like, say they were addicted to buying in clothing or they were very focused on their outer self image it would be so that other people would give them that valid. Station in some way. Not so that they were separate and, like, proud of themselves as themselves, which points back to the...

Like, the in the in... The insecurity Mh. Keeping in... It's also it's such a subtle level that typical people wouldn't see it and wouldn't understand it. So for instance, it goes on a spending spree and buys himself a cool car and buys himself a bunch of cool clothes.

The thought process then is he dresses in those clothes. He drives... That car, and his thought process is look what people see in me. Look how amazing I am. Walking down the street and someone glance at the shop behind him.

He views that person looking at him, and he's like, yeah, That's right. Like, you're looking at me. All of a sudden, it's this image piece that he's putting up that he's using other people's reflections to validate his own insecurities to make himself feel better and to try to be able to hide the void inside of his life and his heart that he has by trying to fill it up with things and people and places and all these kind of validation that will never fill him up completely, But a lot of times people won't see it in this outward piece. Oh, 0, this person gave him a compliment. He could also be walking down this...

Street and view someone looking at him and he would take that and manipulate just a look, just a glance to try to be able to boost his fragile ego. Street Yeah. I'm wondering when we think of how narcissistic abuse could be in a cycle, You know, if we got if I Google? Cycle of narcissistic abuse like, they typically have arrows that go to each, you know, place. So if we were to say that narcissistic abuse is a cycle.

Mh. I like to help people feel prepared. So that's where this question is coming from. I'm not, like, oh, are they gonna come back you know. Mh.

My... My hope is always that people get stronger in between and they heal and then they don't go back to it. But when we're in, like, almost like, they're discarded, I wonder if that validation that they're getting, it starts to get stale. It starts to wear out. Does that lead them to then, Hoover back in, is that, like, whatever was giving them that supply is no longer there?

Because in the cycle, as I've seen it is like, the love bombing ideal, devaluation, which to me feels like tensions rising if we relate it back to the cycle of domestic abuse. Right. Then the discard, So we're in the cycle of, domestic abuse, it would be, the abuse of incident here it's discard, and then uber. And so I guess I'm curious in your perspective, if a Narcissist is going to come back. Is it because that supply, that validation, wherever they went, you know, the new clothes, the gambling, the whatever has run, dry, run stale.

And now they're trying to suck you back in. I guess, like, what I'm really I'm asking is, like, At what point does it become part of a cycle? Or you can have repeated discard? Repeated discard, meaning there would be the same person coming back. To you over and over.

And at what point does it Continuing to... Narcissist or For the narcissist. For the person that... No. With the yum.

To So the victim, like, if Think about this from the victim's perspective when they break up with somebody or they get discarded, usually, their trauma bonded, all they want is that person back right now. I've been there. I'd rather give my right arm than to feel any of the feelings that I'm feeling, that in that moment. And... But I think that in healing, I've seen this a lot of clients.

I've also seen this in myself is that as I start to heal as they start to heal There becomes a step in the healing where they're now afraid that this person is gonna come back because they're not strong enough yet to fully say no leave block the door but they're close. To it or they are strong enough or, like, they're sick of this person and, like, whatever that might be. There's like, a whole host of things that could be in that area Mh. But I think sometimes knowledge of what could happen, a possibility is helpful so that if they start to see the nurse... This quote unquote being nice, that they're not actually being nice.

They haven't changed. They haven't, like, hit their head, you know, and, like, now they're a brand new person, it's says They are hoover back in in which if you let yourself be Hoover, then you get back into the cycle that's probably going to result in a discard. So if we have the knowledge going into it and we're aware of it and we can see it and we get, you know, by watching your content listening to this podcast, doing things like that, you're pretty clear about where things are. Then I'm curious what leads a narcissist to start to hoover somebody in? What's going on for them there?

Is it another way to chase for validation? Could be chasing validation? Could be chasing validation through control of another person? Like... I missed the control I used to have over that person because I don't have another person to control in this moment.

It could be that the validation they were getting from work or something else was... Lackluster could be they went to. Another person, another supply, and that didn't pan out the way that they thought it was going to. So they cycle back. There could be a lot of different pauses in 1 sense, but typically, it's this piece of trying to come back to a person to either feel better about themselves.

Whether that was they did the discard. They got exposed. So they kind of, like, reverse discard. They're like trying to reestablish themselves as being a good guy, a good person, that kind of thing, or you could have coming back into the relationship to control and manipulate, so they validate why I'm a good person, It could be to control and manipulate the emotions. So then Oh, I came back, but you're a crazy person now, so I can't be with you while It's a lot of different pieces with it, but it would stem back to the piece of the narcissist needing some form of validation.

And whether they didn't get it from someone else to dry it up, it wasn't enough. It could just be their board and they wanna go back and mess with another pond. Like, mess with another person, a lot of times I'll use, like, the toast illustration Is in Nurse's views you as an appliance as a toaster. So when you're not doing what he wants you to do, then they'll go find another post go find another form of validation supply, but it doesn't mean that he's gotten rid of you. A lot of times, it'll still come back to be, like, maybe you've figured out your lesson now.

Maybe you'll actually do what I want you to do. Maybe I can control the way. I want you to control Maybe I can get the sex that I want from... Whatever it might be, there's typically a validation piece. And the hard part on the other side is that cycle will always continue.

Until that person stops it. It's not up to the narcissist to stop it because he pretty much never will. And his fed especially if a person keeps allowing it or keeps opening the door or hasn't transformed their mindset, then they'll always be stuck in this loop and the cycle over and over and over again. Especially Yeah. Yeah.

So it's, like, it just sort of puts an exclamation point on why learning the patterns and seeing it. And we're doing all that self work, like your thoughts, your life, your self not letting it be personal, un gas letting yourself is so important to not be stuck in that cycle. It's always amazing to me when we have these conversations and this is... I think our third or fourth 1. I think it's our fourth 1.

That how selfish and narcissist is. And as you've talked through some of these patterns and I'm I'm taking notes like a psycho path over here. Because, like a lot of, like, things are, like, you know, I think it's so helpful. I think it's gonna help so many people And I think it's always amazing how selfish a narcissist is because I think for someone who's like, empathetic, kind. You know, tries to be a good person tries to live in integrity.

It's so hard to think that somebody would do all these things without any regard for the other person. Mh. Does the narcissist even thinking about the other person when all of this is going on? Typically not. Yeah.

Typically, it is only looking at... Himself in the moment. It's not this piece of how is this going affect someone else? Like, how is this gonna impact them? Like, how is this going to hurt them.

And you see this with the conversation of intention. The nurses is being like, wasn't my intention to hurt you at the same time it wasn't his intention not to hurt you. So it's still there. Like, he's still doing it in a way that it's going to her you no matter what. It's just you didn't have a thought in his mind.

You didn't really matter. And that's 1 of the pieces because people hear that. And they're, like, oh, that means I don't matter. Like, no. You just didn't matter to him because he doesn't actually care about other human beings except for himself, and it's easy for people to get it skewed and get confused inside of this because then they're attaching their worth and their value based on how another person sees them or another person, even validates them to use the same kind of word.

But inside that moment, it gets really confusing because then people are stuck thinking like, oh, He didn't care about me, and the easiest answer is you're right. He didn't. Because all he cared about in the moment was self and all he looked at in the moment was short term payoff. So what do I need to do in this moment did you just get what I want? Yeah.

Yeah. And I think, like really accepting the reality of... It brings us to, like, really accepting the reality of this is who this person is. Like, this is who this person is. Mh.

We've said before, like, you've changed... You went through the process of change, and, you know, you said on another podcast. It's an everyday process for you? It's not something that can just be, like, left on the back burner. It's not, like, 1 day you wake up, not you're not narcissistic anymore.

It's like, it's an every everyday. Process, and most people don't commit to that work. And so it just... It's like acceptance of the fact that, like, this person, no matter how much you love them care about them and are trauma bonded to them, they will not change to see you as a human being. Right.

A hundred percent. Because that's not they're focused the modality or their view or perspective of life at all. Yeah. Mh. 1 of my clients asked this question, and I said I would ask it because I do hear it a lot, but...

It is how can somebody swear that they'll love you forever and then discard you. Mh that's huge. Yeah, the easiest way to be able to say this is that they're a liar. Yeah. And so you walk into that premise thinking, well, they've told me that they're gonna love me forever.

They've swear this. They promised this. And that's all operating on the thought process that they're a man of their word. They're a person of their word. When reality, Nurses aren't.

Like, they're typically liars, coward words, tears. We... Like, go down the list. Right? But they're typically not going to be telling the truth because the truth is too vulnerable is too hard for them to actually hear, feel experience and so as a result they're gonna run away from it.

So part of it is in the question about how can someone swear they will love you forever then discard, goes back to the same piece that they didn't actually tell the truth. Like, they didn't actually swear that they were going to love you forever because that was just their version of it. That was just their willingness to be able to see. I'll use you forever, and then I'll discard you. That would probably be a better accurate description of what they're actually saying in the moment.

But obviously, a narcissist isn't gonna say that. They're gonna say I love you because it fits better into society. That sounds better, and that's what other people want to hear in the moment. Yeah. Yeah.

And usually, they say it's so soon that you're, like, taken aback, and then you're like, wait, but they said that, you know, 7 days into dating. You know, and it... It meant so much, but these said something about, like, at the expectations that they have of us. And Mh. I think that's a very big thing too because something when we're healing, especially from a discard, something that is so confusing and, like, you're in that state that you said really well about...

You know, you're in this state where, like, you can't let go of this thinking and the thoughts of, like is this real life and all of those things that are going on, I've seen this with a lot of people it goes into, like, what if I didn't do enough? What if I didn't love them enough? Mh. They kept to ass keen to spend every moment of every day with me and I said, no, and I prioritize my work, and I did these things. And, like, maybe I was just too tired or I should have done this and it's, like, asking I think that really becomes very dizzy for people because Mh.

They start to internalize that it was them. Right. And, like, it must be something wrong with them. And that's actually the doorway that brings a lot of people to me to do this work, and that's probably 1 of the first things that we do is like, un gas, a lot of that stuff of, like, you showed up as you... But you also were showing up as you were being abused.

Right? So you can't... And these expectations, I'm was hearing them is, like, they're so large, and they're so big. And they... The narcissist doesn't have them for themselves in the way they have them for other people.

For sure. It's very... Hip critical of what they view you need to do versus what, like, he needs to do in vice versa. A lot of times, you're right. Like, you'll see this with almost everybody that we talk.

To, they need this form of clarity to first understand that it wasn't them because they're taking on so much of the blame and responsibility and they're putting it to on themselves, making themselves feel like they're the ones that messed up. They're the ones did this. And oftentimes, it's initially just believing the story believing the lie that the Narcissist is put on them that it was already projecting saying, hey, it's your fault, Like, this is your problem. So they believe it to start off with, put But then they start telling themselves their own lot, and their own stories. And this is where it gets really dangerous and where you have people that have broken away from a narcissistic abuse.

Or they've been discarded, and they still haven't healed. A year to 5 years down the road They're in the same exact spot. They're just not with him. And inside of this, it's all on the stories that they're telling themselves because we're all made up of... Well, like, the story you tell yourself is what you believe about yourself.

And so the more people are able to realize that oftentimes what they're telling themselves is based on feelings is based on projection. From the Narcissist is based on lies from him, and based on your own lives, you believe based on your own perspective and your own frame of reality. And So people will come in. They'll be, like, hey. I think I think it's my fault because this happened.

This actually came up 2 weeks ago, in a group coaching called. 1 the 1 the lady said, I still am struggling with this trigger that I could have done something different. I was like, okay. Let's talk about this. How long were you together?

Now on my tomatoes is probably... Is, like, 30 years. And she was, like, I tried to talk to him so many times. I'm like, how many times do you tried to talk to him? She was, like, probably at least once a month.

I'm like, okay. Add that up. How many times is that over 30 years. So then we have a number of... This is how many times she tried?

And then we get to the really the core crux of the problem and she held him accountable, and that's why he left. So the thought that she's been playing through her mind is I did something wrong because I said it wrong. I could done it different. I could done it better. And then me being able to break it down and just have her understand.

Hey. In the past 30 years, You've had at least 360 conversations with him, and we're going to base all of your logic off of the 1 time. That's where we need to understand because he didn't listen to you all the other times, and you kept changing your approach. You tried to ask him different. You tried to ask.

Nicer. You tried to write it down. You try to communicate it inside outside all these different ways. And so it's really this piece of walking her back. To what's the store you're telling yourself.

And part of it was I screwed up because I didn't communicate. Right. Like, it was my fault because I messed up in the communication because it pissed him off when in reality, she had tried to change all of her communication 360 times. Yeah. And he still didn't care.

And so when she started to see the facts of the situation of wait a second, it's actually not this 1 time. It's the lit of times that I tried to communicate in he wouldn't receive. He didn't wanna hear, and I tried and I just and modified everything, it puts a different perspective. So when people are able to look back on the relationship, and I'll ask them. How much did you change for him?

And then how much did he change for you? And typically, there's a giant gap? Is when we're dealing with nurse, there's always a giant gap. Because he's always going to move the bar. And people get confused about this because they think if I would achieve this level, then I'll be good.

I'll be accepted. I'll be loved. He'll care about me, which oftentimes is just a pre... Is a foreshadowing of, like, their own trauma or their own abuse their own emotional things haven't been worked on before the relationship that we have to go back and work on too. But inside the piece of raising the bar, the Narcissist will always raise the bar or so that he doesn't have to deal with the fact that it's him.

So, like, if I raise the bar saying, we'll just use like, we'll just use numbers. If I say the bar of, like, hey, You need to operate out of... 25, and then you get to a 25, then I'm like, I have to raise the bar. You have to actually go to a 30. Then you have to progress.

You have to go 5 more points do you get the 30 You get to 30, and I'm like, no. You have to go to 45 because that's actually... That's actually the bar. That's actually where I want you to be. And what's happening here is whenever you quote unquote level up to the Narcissist expectations.

There becomes this... S mode of where you're actually fulfilling his expectations. You're fulfilling the obligations that he set. And in that moment, there's this small realization that if you meet all of his expectations and the relationship is so crappy, then it must not be you, and it must be him. Mh.

So in that moment, he's like, you can't deal with that shame guilt. Can't deal with that feeling. So actually, it's the bar. We need to raise the bar higher. And so then you're always trying and you're never finding a place where you actually reach this level where the expectations are actually met and you're good enough, It's always this piece of trying to make sure you're always trying always progressing, making him feel safe and secure because you're validating him because you're following after him because you're seeking him.

You're running after what he set for you to do. He's controlling you. The list goes on and on in that regard. But that's the piece of always raising the bar because if you actually met his expectations, then he'd have to realize that it's not you. It's actually him.

Yeah. I think that's really important. And I think... And I like what you said about the the story about what's... Let's get to the truth of the story.

And and the way that you described that you did that with your client. I wanted to ask you about, like, is there a tool? I know you have a lot of tools in the work that you do in your program, but Obviously, I don't want you to give them all away for free. But, like, I think that sounds like a really good 1 to just name and frame of, if somebody is going through the discard and they're second guessing all the ways in which they showed up to really get very clear and honest about the story. Mh.

No, absolutely. And, yeah, I don't mind sharing stuff because Yeah. Just having people understand the information is huge. And then what they do with it. Obviously, is on them of how they wanna be able to progress in their mindset and applying it.

And then we take it to a whole level with accountability and helping, bring people into community that actually help support and lift them up. So we actually teach inside of part of our program. We teach her... What's called the freedom formula, and that's actually a tool that helps walk people through finding the story, which we found is inside of Narcissistic and abuse is the hardest thing. People will tell you.

Oh, I know my story. It's this and 10 times out of 10 it's not that. Like, it's it's something that they're saying, But we have to go about 3 levels deep than that actual story to figure out what's actually going on. Because they might be saying something about him something about themselves. And it might boil down to the fact of because he left me.

I'm not good enough. Or he'd left me for another woman. So therefore, I'm not worthy. But there's all these different pieces that typically will come back having a story that might have him in them in the conversation, but typically affects back on themselves. Which is the only thing that we can actually change and heal and grow and transform.

So finding that story is absolutely essential, it's hard for be able to do it. So I'll walk you through it really quick. I don't mind online sharing. So consider it this way, and whoever's is listening, like, grab piece papers you can write this out, The first thing we're doing is we wanna just identify a trigger. It might be the biggest trigger that's happening in your life, It might be the smallest.

We just need to find 1 and we're gonna stick in that exact. Path. We're gonna stay on that same path of that trigger. So something just happened that triggered you spiral out frustrated to you confused you, like, like, put you in a state of anxiety panic. Whatever it is, identify the trigger write it down the piece paper.

Next, after that, you wanna be able to identify, what are the emotions that are coming up inside that trigger. Easiest way is to be able to Google and pull up, like, a negative emotion wheel. Typically gonna have about 6 emotions, 6 to 8 emotions in the center of the wheel. Then Kinda go out to another spoke of a bunch of more motions than another spoke of a bunch more motions. You identify in that trigger what's the main emotion you know, is it alone?

Is it sadness? Is it angry, Whatever it might be. Figure out that main emotion, then you're inside that high slice of the wheel? Of, okay. Now I'm dealing with anger.

So then you move out to the next section. There's more anger and move up the next section, there's different words describing anger. You write down all the things that fall under that trigger and that particular emotions. So you might have 1, you might have 20 different emotions. You narrow those down to 3 emotions.

And then from there you drop them into what we call feeling statements. So how that sounds would be I feel blank because blank. So in that same piece, it would be I feel emotions, so anger because he left me for another woman. Or I feel frustrated because he ghost to me, and I don't know what's going on. And so you take 3 of those emotions and you list all 3 out in these feelings statement, so I feel something.

I feel something I feel something because you list all those 3 out. Then you sit with all of it. This is a hard part because people won't slow down enough to do this. Then you sit with it and you're like, let me sit think about the trigger. Let me think about the main emotion.

Let me think about the main feeling that's coming out of all those. And then we start constructing the story that you're actually believing. Typically, the first thought or story that comes up is probably not gonna be the first 1. So then they write out a sentence, 2 sentences max of basically a story. Like, what does this actually look like?

What are they telling themselves about him about them etcetera. And I look at that and they I start to see, okay. Is this actually what my mind is thinking in that trigger moment or is this just logic. If it's logic, then it doesn't work. We have to go back to motion, we have to stick on the emotional side.

And so inside of this process, we're trying to go lower and lower and lower if... Figure out in that moment of trigger, What is the actual, like, almost primitive thought in 1 sense is going through a person's head, that is the the the figure soul conscious, like, talk, like, the verbal talk that's happening. The story, the the lie, the the idea the thought that's going through the head in that moment. And then once we find that, you can always refine it work on it. But once we find that, it'll typically be about 1 sentence.

Then we take that 1 sentence, and we put it on trial. And what I mean is we take that 1 sentence and underneath that we list all of the facts, just facts that either approve or not. So it can't be longer than a sentence because once you move past the sentence, you're no longer longer in facts than you're in fiction and fantasy source. So we we list out what are the facts that prove or deny that story? What are the facts that prove that you're not good enough?

What are the facts that prove that longer you know, he doesn't care about you. Where the facts of him showing up, like, whatever might be. We're list up all the facts. Then is the time where we switch more, logic, and we're looking at it critically. And, like, okay, do the facts prove or deny the story.

Typically, as people are going through this the first time, it almost always denies the story they're telling themselves so then they create a new story based on the facts. So it's a way to be able to walk people through an emotional side, then switches to a logic side then then brings it back into a sentence that they can plug in emotionally. Because otherwise, we found people would view their story from a logic standpoint. Of while I know I need to get over him, and that doesn't help anything. Right?

Like, that's someone just saying, like, just leave, just block. Just go Yeah. Doesn't really help them heal. We had to actually find a way to find what is the internal dialogue? How do we actually put it against logic, Put against facts.

And then what is the new story that actually has to replace the old 1. So when that trigger happens again when they feel those emotions when they start going down that path of those feelings? They can pause and think be, like, wait a minute. I've actually already done the work. Let me review the new story and they start to memorize it integrate it, and all of a sudden, that original story.

Loses power. The trigger loses its effectiveness, and then that's 1 of them that's cleared off. And then they continue doing that, And we start teaching ways to do it fast and faster, but that's the long example of how we initially teach. So people understand when they get stuck. Let's go through this entire process.

You can actually find out what is underneath the surface so that we can actually work on transforming that story to provide you the direction that you actually wanna go That's what we call the freedom formula. That's 1 of the longer examples that we teach to help people find the story so they can be liberated from it. I love this. Thank you so much for sharing that in... And allowing and even saying, like G a pen, you know, so that people write this down.

I did it as you were saying it. And obviously, like, I know there's a level of taking a step back. But even in, like... And I was doing it as you were talking about it, But when you got to the point of like, okay, well, let's put this on trial. You know, I only wrote down 1 or 2 things, but it, like, it already reframe the story.

And I know if I sat down and did this again that I feel like it would be, like, really healing actually to get a more in... Brand new story. You know, it was interesting, though I'm glad you for this said the wheel of emotion 2. And I actually... I have 1 on my desk, so I looked at it and angry was the word that I looked at, and then the the 3 that I came underneath that was violated, betrayed, and resent.

Mh. And I think, like, so the 1 part I didn't do that I wrote back. I wrote it out was that I feel statements I feel betrayed because and I think like, when I do give myself times to do this, which I will do later today, I can already see and feel how using those words over the big word of angry? Because we're all angry all mad Or all all that, But like... Right.

Why do I feel betrayed? Why do I feel resent full? And, like, just because I am an open book the trigger that came up for me was like, he always has to remind me it's all my fault. Is what I wrote down. You know, which of it like, leads to, like, a really tough thought.

So thank you so much for sharing that. I know that's going to be super helpful for people and I'll write up the formula in the show notes, so people can also easily access it to. Yeah. No. Absolutely.

That's a piece of what we teach. We just do it. Way more in depth. So inside of some of the the challenges and some of the things that we walk people through, Like, that's a a week long curriculum because we actually take time for breathing exercises, different meditation pieces, different aspects of, like, getting grounded of where you're at what you're understanding flushing out different pieces. And then as people start to learn how to do it and learn how to actually find the story they'll get to the place where they don't need that entire formula.

Yeah. And then we walk them through a simple frame that we use inside of... The software and the support system that we have that I use all the time, which is called stacking, Mh. Which would typically just streamline it in a much faster process. But what we found initially, was we couldn't walk up to someone and ask them?

Hey, what's the story you're telling yourself? Because they had no clue coming out of gas lighting, fog, all the abuse So he had to create something that they could actually tang find it and figure it out to, like, majority of the time and if they couldn't, they could rework it and still figure it out. And then that started enabling people to identify the story they believed, which enabled us radically shift their mindset, their thought process, and open up the gate of transformation because, again, going back to what I mentioned earlier, like, we are all just the stories that we tell ourselves. Like, what you believe about you is just the story that you're telling you about yourself. So if we change that narrative if we change what you're actually believing about you, it's amazing what can happen because then you're actually writing your own narrative.

If you're going the direction, you want to go no longer held back by limiting beliefs, his projection, his lies, your own lives, your own stories. All those things start to get released, and it just helps people blossom and grow into who they're they called to be. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me today. This was...

I think it was so helpful it's going to help so many people. Can you please share how people can find you and connect with you? Yeah. Absolutely. If you wanna know more about what I do and be able to connect?

You can see me on any social media out there under just raw motivations. So feel free to look that up, or you can go to raw motivations dot com. If you're currently listening and your woman is trapped in Narcissistic abuse and you resonate with what I said and what I'm going through and how I help people break free. Then you can actually go to rom automations dot com slash break to be able to just get a list of a bunch of other people that I've helped work with that have been liberated and to be able to hear a short presentation of what I do and how I actually help liberate people every single day. Awesome, and I'll be sure to put all your links in the show notes.

So if someone's listening so this I could just scroll down and go right to you. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you. I love the way that Ben explains things.

So I hope this episode was helpful for you just as I said at the start. And if you need support, please reach out to Ben, Please reach out to me. My emotional abuse recovery course is on my website at emotional abuse coach dot com. I wanted to take a moment here to share where I ended up when I did the find the story with Ben. And so the trigger that I named that I said was that it reminded me that it's all my fault, where I ended when I work through the emotions, how I felt?

What's logical? I ended up with. I know I'm a good person. And I don't hurt people. So therefore, this can't be all my fault.

I did this again later in the day for another trigger that would come up often, that trigger was, I can't believe that I was discarded. And when I work through it and work through it and work through it. The thought that I ended up with at the end, the new thought was, I'm so grateful that I'm not on this roller coaster anymore. I do very similar work like this 1 on 1 with people. So if this is something that you feel like you need support on.

Like I said, reach out to Ben and reach out to me there other amazing people out there but either have programs or do 1 on 1. Get the support that you need because similar to Ben's sentiment about him wanting just to help as many people as possible, in any way possible, I share that too. You know, I say this is a lot like this podcast, I do this because I want to help and I really really hope that this was helpful. Thank you as always for being here.