How Cluster B Traits Show Up in Toxic Relationships

This episode is a deep dive into the reality of navigating relationships with individuals who exhibit traits of Cluster B personality disorders—including narcissistic, borderline, antisocial, and histrionic personality disorders. If you've ever felt trapped in a cycle of confusion, self-doubt, or emotional exhaustion in your relationship, this conversation will help you understand why. 

I share personal experiences and insights from her coaching work to break down how these disorders manifest in toxic dynamics, the emotional manipulation tactics often used, and why so many survivors struggle to make sense of what’s happening to them.

Transcript

 Welcome to the You're Not Crazy podcast hosted by Jessica Knight, a certified life coach who specializes in healing from narcissistic and emotional abuse. This podcast is intended to help you identify manipulative and abusive behavior, set boundaries with yourself and others, and heal the relationship with yourself so you can learn to love in a healthy way. 

You can connect with me. Jessica and find additional resources, content, and coaching at  emotionalabusecoach. com. 

Hello, and thank you for being here. Before we dive in, I want to remind you about my offerings. I offer a one on one coaching for those navigating emotional abuse and high conflict divorce. If you need clarity, validation, or strategy on how to move forward, you can book a one hour validation call. which does not require an ongoing commitment or clarity call for those interested in working together long term.

Of course, I have other resources like this podcast. And if you're looking for more of those resources, you can follow me on sub stack. The link is in the show notes. Which breaks down complexities of emotional manipulation and healing. And if you need practical tools, my online resources, like divorcing a narcissist one on one or emotional abuse breakthrough course are available anytime at Jessica Knight dot think epic. 

com. I'll put that link in the show notes as well.  So let's get into today's episode.  And so in this episode, I. Want to start out with a story and the purpose is that so many people want to understand cluster B disorders and the DSM 5 Even though none of us ever signed up to learn why we're being treated like shit And that it's actually a personality disorder that this person has it's still very confusing and very disorienting And so I want to kind of go back to what helped me understand this and what got me to understand this because I mean Because honestly I started to put this stuff together when I was dealing with it firsthand And for those who have been here before, you know I have a history of growing up in an abusive home.

There were so many triggers along the way.  And if this is your first episode listening to me, here are the cliff notes. I grew up escaping abuse only to find myself in abusive relationships later on. And I had to learn how to navigate that and understand the intricacies, the triggers, and to deal with what a trauma bond feels like.

And when you're in the midst of it, it really feels like you're dying.  In this episode specifically, I've been preparing for a few months, focusing on cluster B disorders. I keep coming back to it because when I talk about this or in this topic specifically, I get feedback like, oh my god, thank you. You said it in a way I can understand.

But then there's tougher feedback that typically goes like, why are you making cluster B sound so bad?  They're people too. And  I usually see that kind of reaction online. Like on threads rather than on the podcast,  and I'm very sensitive to the fact that we are all very different However, if you're experiencing abuse if you feel like you're falling apart that this is never going to get better and that you're losing your Mind and more of yourself.

I'm not going to sit back and say stay in a relationship Just because they have a personality disorder and can't help it. That is not my stance  I know what it feels like to be living  feel dead at the same time  From being in a relationship with somebody who is overtly and covertly taking away every ounce of freedom that I have and any ounce of, you know, even the freedom to think my own thoughts.

I wouldn't wish that on anybody. And I know, I know how long and tough healing can be. So that being said, today's topic  is going to talk a little bit more about cluster B disorders,  and  I want to touch on how we get to the point of desperately wanting to understand what the fuck is happening. I believe it's because we're experiencing something we don't understand.

Things just don't make sense. You struggle to explain the relationship to others, and you might even feel like you're being dramatic because sometimes the story is so insane that you wonder, did it really happen? Were they really upset over that thing? Is that the thing that pushed them over the edge?

What did you say? And they responded to how,  and it did happen. You did experience it, but I understand that feeling of, oh my God, what am I even doing?  And then your friends and family might just say, you need to leave. Yet most of us are so stuck in the moment, not fully grasping what's happening, while we're living it. 

We're not thinking clearly. We're being gaslit. We're stuck. We're traumatized in that moment. And as I was preparing this episode, I remembered the moment I realized just how overt the abuse was.  So I'm going to tell you that story quickly. And now this is a past relationship and for months prior, there were several red flags that were coming up.

He was weaponizing the breakup. There was a lot of triangulation, which if you don't know what triangulation is, basically when the abuser brings in another person, a friend, a family, or a job, as a way to make you feel like you're always in competition for their time, for their affection, or their attention. 

This way they keep you on edge. Make you doubt yourself and make you work harder to get the thing that you want, which is usually just like a very simple thing, like time together, you know, something like that. And that was coming up a lot and.  This always kept me positioned as like the other, the annoyance, yet he wanted to be in the relationship with me.

So it was always like fighting for something, being confused. It was, it was awful and  the arguments were intense and they seemed to go on forever and that really started to stick out to me is that he would get very mad over very small things and then shut down. At first I thought, okay, maybe he has anger issues and like that's something he can work on  because my first thought wasn't  Oh, like, he must have every sign of an emotionally,  you know,  of an emotional abuser.

I need to run away from this. That came Later, at first I thought, okay, he has anger issues  and if he would just pause and listen, he would hear me.  I kept justifying his behavior because I didn't understand what I was going through.  I was in my early thirties and I just kept wondering what's going on.

And I experienced different kinds of abuse and control before, but nothing this overt. This  started to traumatize me quite a bit and I was freaked out. And I think. Oh my god, this isn't okay. I need to leave. I was crying all the time. He even blamed my past because he came from a quote unquote good family  and for what it's worth They really are a good family But they probably also excused a lot of his behavior and didn't know how to deal with his anger So they look the other way But I couldn't sit with all the hurtful qualities he displayed and I also wasn't gonna stay silent and let somebody just be angry and Railroad me  because like they didn't have the ability to regulate their own emotions and pause  And the point is, all of this was happening, and I couldn't quite pinpoint what it was. 

I remember a friend told me this is abuse, but I didn't quite understand it at the time. I even wondered if other people Wouldn't see it that way. Like maybe, maybe this is me. Maybe this is my trigger.  And so after  some of that, we kept getting into disagreements  and they usually were always bad how I felt.

And then one particular incident happened  and it was during a month where we barely saw each other because we had all these other obligations, whether they were work or personal or familial, like things were getting kind of like pulled away. And when we had time together, it was like literally running errands  and When we did have time together,  I expressed that I prefer to have someone on one time because I just felt like we were off balance,  even just one day, if possible, and it's not, wasn't a big thing.

It was just like a, hey, I'm noticing I'm wanting this and missing this. And I would like to prioritize that if we can this month,  but I'm also, and I can say this about myself, an extremely reasonable person, like that if it just couldn't happen, it couldn't happen because maybe it couldn't happen because of me and my schedule. 

And I remember like we kind of planned a day and it was like just a couple of hours on that day. It was Saturday.  And then he said it was his friend's birthday that day. And they reached out and he made plans to have her and all her friends over  and asked if I was okay with that. And I replied,  well, I'm not going to say no,  but I would really prefer that time with you.

Can we have some hours together earlier in the day?  I even suggested that, like, what if you didn't have them at your place, and then, you know, but we could meet up with them later, you know, I was trying to find a way to say, basically, no. And  I eventually,  you know, there were a few other texts back and forth.

And I eventually said, like, well, we're running on empty here. If we can prioritize some quality time, I think it will go a long way. But I understand, you know,  This date might be off. He immediately got mad at me, blaming me for supposedly not liking his friend, which wasn't the case. He did triangulate with this particular friend a lot, but I didn't dislike her.

I disliked her because he kept triangulating with her, but I didn't like just her as a person. And the argument went in circles until he eventually just stopped talking to me. So he stonewalled. By that point, I started setting boundaries without even realizing it. I just stopped trying to get him to respond.

And then after my work day was over, I kind of went back to it and.  I called him and said, Hey, what's going on here? Like, it seems like something really went off course. He refused to answer my question and got off the phone and then sent a text that basically said I'm mad at you, but I'm not going to tell you what's going on.

It's not what he said. He said, I'm very upset with you and I'm not in a place to talk about it. Something like that. And if you're with somebody who has anger management issues or if that's how you're framing it.  You know that they're just stewing over there and you're waiting for it to blow over so like I immediately went into like panic mode  I then tried to resolve the situation Thinking maybe it was a misunderstanding that if we couldn't do something that weekend we could plan for another and again This is like it feels so silly even when I'm talking to you  to you right now about it because it's like all I was asking for was time and now it's like it's become such a bigger thing and now I'm caretaking right if we can't do this then then maybe we could do this then I'm totally throwing my need in the trash and I'm sure I needed it because like  things weren't going well and I was trying to kind of probably caretake the relationship, right?

All of this is subconscious  and then he said we would talk about this all on zoom without video And this is so out of character and I was like What?  And he repeated, Zoom, no video.  At that point, I was just completely shook. I was crying, I was shaking, and I just accepted that was the only way we were going to talk, so I accepted it. 

And I decided to set a mental time limit for that conversation. Spoiler alert, that time limit went out the window. And when we got on Zoom,  he shares a screen, and he had prepared a Word document that laid out the entire text conversation. And this was his attempt to walk me through what happened for him. 

Because he was seeing that as the truth. He wasn't just explaining his side, he was dictating what happened for both of us.  He went through it line by line saying things like, you said this and then I said this, and you responded with this, which is just asinine, and I, and every time he quoted me, he was adding tone to my words, because he was saying it back to me.

Words from a text message. And some of the tone never even existed and he never asked how I felt or how I said it or what I was thinking.  I kept having to interrupt him to say, that's not what I said. That's not what my text said.  How do you know I felt that? You're adding tone to something that I didn't say.

And, you know, as I say this to you now, it's like, what I should have done is  Exit the zoom and probably, you know, leave this relationship immediately. But when we're in it, we don't know it when we're in it, we don't know it. And like, when we're in it, we feel stuck. We're scared. Our brain is not working like how it is. 

Years after the relationship. Now I'm looking at this and I'm like, this is crazy, but this is the stuff that people talk to me about all the time.  And so this conversation is going on. It's, I'm getting really upset and triggered and  he got really tripped up by me trying to correct him. But that was my way of saying like, that is not what I said because otherwise I'm just sitting there answering for the, for something I didn't do.

And by this point I was, Not going to do that. Like I might've done that in the past. I was not going to do that now. And this whole ordeal dragged on for hours, four hours actually. And at no point was I able to express how I felt.  He never turned on his video by the end. I was just sitting there staring at the wall, wondering what the fuck just happened.

I was crying and I had to pause the call several times and  put myself on mute because I couldn't stop crying.  And this was also ridiculous.  I had simply tried to say that I needed some time with him. And at that point, I didn't even want to continue. I was with this person,  but I had no idea what was going on because this is not how you treat someone.

And I kept having to pause him to insist, that is not what I meant, that is not what I said. And he was implying that like, he wasn't adding to it at all. So I was like constantly being gaslit. And this conversation began to pull me down the rabbit hole of understanding what abuse was. This was a turning point.

And eventually, trying to understand what the fuck was really happening.  I couldn't understand how somebody could think the way he does. And at that point, all I could see was that I was in the cycle of abuse. I couldn't see much else. I couldn't see where it was going.  But when we start talking about the pathology, the behaviors, and it becomes clear this person isn't really thinking.

at all in a healthy way.  And maybe this person is incapable of thinking in a healthy way. And I have such a big issue with the whole capability thing. Like, are they even capable? I struggle with that because we see capability in so many other areas, but in the end, the only way that we make sense of our experience is to say  there must be.

be a personality disorder at play because otherwise we just blame ourselves, right? I must have done this. I must have pissed him off. I'm activating his anger issues, right? Everything is based on him. It's the framework that we start to understand what's going on.  And, you know, we might not be able to see it now, people say the behaviors that we see here  align disturbingly well with patterns we see in cluster B disorders, particularly in this case it was narcissistic personality disorder, NPD, and antisocial personality disorder, ASPD. 

And if we just look at this from like a bird's eye view perspective, the word document thing,  it's not just controlling, it's deliberate.  It's gaslighting on a level that suggests that he needs to dictate the reality to me.  He's rewriting history in front of me, essentially, and that is disordered thinking,  right?

He's trying to control a narrative. There's no empathy anywhere. And everything is really about like a punishment, giving me a punishment.  And then like, you know, when you think about the timing, like in a healthy relationship, people probably would be like, all right, this was a misunderstanding. Let's just move on.

You know, I hear your need. You want time with me? You're being flexible with me, right?  You know, you're fine that we're going to do this birthday thing, but I appreciate that. And like, yes, well, let's find time on the calendar  that would be completely different.  And so  it makes us feel so much like it's us that it has to be us. 

And I think a lot of it comes from like, a lot of us don't really understand personality disorders. And I'm going to do my best to give you the like non psychologist version of what this looks like, because I am a coach. I have specific training. In personality disorders, but like numerous trainings in it.

And so I'm going to take you through some of the basics here. But what I want to say is like, there is  stuff about this information about this everywhere. There's resources, there's books, there is a lot of information out there.  But regardless of what disorder they have, or don't have, or what this looks like, or what it even means,  I want you to remember this.

The behavior was abusive and in your situation, if you're here and if you're listening and if you have been listening, it doesn't matter what disorder they have  or not have or what traits they have,  the behavior is abusive  because even if it's just extreme narcissism without like a disorder,  they still choose to manipulate control and gaslight and harm you. 

Labeling them isn't what frees you. It's knowing that it was not your fault and that it's not your fault.  And this is why we end up in this, like, cluster B rabbit hole, because we're trying to make sense of things that don't make sense.  And that's why I'm here today, and like, I wanted to give some context to the episode. 

And so, you've heard, I'm sure, I mean, we can't, like, throw a stone without hearing the word, and, you know, narcissistic personality disorder, but The cluster B personality disorders are NPD, narcissism, borderline personality disorder, BPD, antisocial personality disorder, which is sometimes called sociopathy, and hysterotic personality disorder.

And they fall under what psychologists call the dramatic and erratic cluster of disorders.  And people with these disorders share some key traits. They have low empathy, difficulty regulating their emotions,  impulsivity,  And they're often manipulative. They're not just quirks. They're not just bad habits.

They are deeply ingrained in the personality traits that emerge early in life. And unfortunately, they're very resistant to change.  And now I want to emphasize something. Again, you did not cause your partner's Cluster B Disorder. They're rooted in genetics, neurological factors, and it's not something that you did. 

It's not caused by just one experience they had. Some factors include childhood trauma, environmental factors, parental mental issues, etc.  And they're grouped together because they share overlapping features and are often co occurring individuals.  And why somebody may fit primarily into one category, they may also exhibit traits of the other categories.

So for example, narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders both involve a lack of empathy. But antisocial personality disorder also includes a disregard for rules and societal norms. They feel like they can do their own thing the way that they want to do it.  Borderline personality disorder, on the other hand, is usually marked by intense emotional instability. 

But you can still include manipulative behaviors and impulsivity, similar to other cluster B disorders.  And understanding these overlaps help us make sense of the patterns we see in relationships with these individuals because usually we're not just seeing a straight narcissist, right? We're seeing someone who is deeply emotional at times and also extremely narcissistic and can like flip on a dime and then they're in this other place, right?

And so if you think about it, we see a lot of these things mixed together and I think a lot of people are like, is he this? Is he that? Is she that? Is she this? It's, you have to remember they're, they're a cluster. They go together. The only one that I think I've ever seen on its own would be like a grandiose narcissist,  but they really go together. 

And  there's, in a former DSM,  There was, I believe it was DSM 3. Researchers began to notice that certain disorders shared key traits. Cluster B disorders, in particular, were grouped because they involve dramatic, emotional, and erratic behaviors that create significant interpersonal conflicts.  And that's why I think they're studied together rather than separately.

And I think that, you know, when we throw the names around, you know, BPD, NPD, you know, sociopath, it's,  it puts them in this one place. But  if we're able to see like, no, they actually are, they actually have disordered thinking in a  variety of ways.  That's what's different, you know? And so.  If we look at the example I gave earlier,  I can, I can look at that whole thing and identify  that there are a few, sorry,  NPD and antisocial personality.

There's like grandiosity control, lack of empathy and entitlement.  He was redefining my reality or attempting to,  and then there's the ASPD. Like, it was like quite sadistic the way he like kept that conversation going. And it was like punished, but it was like a relationship based on punishment. That's very consistent with ASPD. 

There was a punishment for me not complying.  Over time, I also saw a lot of borderline in him, which was like the emotional vitality, the push and pull behavior, extreme reactions to any perceived criticism, which really came up later. Um, though he lacked that deep fear of abandonment. He didn't have that.

Although I've been with people that do  so this is why these relationships are so harmful because we start because there's so much going on It starts to makes no sense and all they are committed to is making us Understand the way that they see the world so that they don't have to like even look at the way that they think  Why are these relationships harmful  a lot of reasons but it comes down to like  a few inabilities  in these disorders There's an inability to sustain  positive change, the inability to develop emotional depth, and the inability to gain insight. 

Into how their behavior affects other people. And so let's talk about change. I'm sure many of you have heard your partner's promise I'll do better this time only to fall back into the same harmful patterns and each time it seems sincere  Brainwiring behind this almost makes it impossible to change unless they decide they want to change and they seek help for it  They also lack a full spectrum of emotions.

They might show anger or joy, but their emotional responses are often quite shallow and also very, very self centered,  and it makes meaningful connection much harder.  Many people can reflect on their actions and feel genuine remorse when they hurt someone,  but somebody with a cluster B  disorder, They don't do that.

They may know their actions upset you, but then they don't truly feel the weight of the harm that they've caused.  Imagine just like being in a relationship with someone who constantly shifts between loving and being distant. You'd feel stonewalled.  You know, one moment you're being love bombed, the next they disappear or lash out.

You know, in my example, one moment we can talk about an issue and make a plan, and the next he's freaking out.  In a healthy relationship, right, they don't get immediately angry. They don't accuse you of not liking their friend, which is projection and deflection. They don't ignore the words and twist the meaning. 

They don't punish.  They don't refuse to communicate,  right. They might instead acknowledge your feelings. Validate your need, prioritizes connection, and finds a compromise or a balanced solution. They hear you, right? You're not meant to like, have to  put yourself into like a yo yo, you know, essentially, at the end of the day. 

And if you've been in a relationship  with somebody like this, which you likely have if you're here.  You've probably experienced this cycle of hope and disappointment. They promise to change. They may even seem to for a while, but then the old behaviors return.  This cycle can make you feel like you're the problem or that you're not doing enough to help them or the relationship because everything is put on you  and it makes it really hard to leave because this is usually where your empathy comes in and you feel bad or you think that they can't, you know, stop it or control it.

But I would ask you one, are they listening to you? Like when you say this behavior is hurting me and this is what you're doing, I don't think that you see it. I don't think you understand that, but are you willing to work on that? Because I'm telling you, and I want you to believe me that this is happening.

I can give you examples.  Most of the time. They'll say yes, then no, or just no, and tell you that you're wrong.  It makes you feel like you are the problem over and over and over again.  One of the hardest things about leaving these relationships is that  you start to try and work and fix on things. And because you, because when we're in a relationship with somebody, we're not thinking, this is what's going on.

I have to get out of it. We're thinking,  what do I do? I have to change this. I have to do that. I have to do this.  And if you've been in a relationship with somebody like this, a cluster B individual, you've probably experienced the cycle of hope and disappointment  over and over. And it's hard to leave because of the emotional manipulation. 

There is love bombing, gaslighting, intermittent reinforcement, and they create such a powerful bond that can feel just impossible to break.  Your brain becomes wired to seek their approval. Even when they hurt you, this is a trauma bond  and that's why beginning to learn about it and educate yourself is key because that is what's going to help you begin to break out of it because  like I said at the beginning just because They have a personality disorder just because they may not be able to control it It doesn't mean that it's not abusive  And so  if you're listening to this and you're like, you know putting together the pieces and you're like, what is the next step? 

I would invite you to look at, basically just learn a little bit about the personality disorders. Do not go tell them that they have a personality disorder.  Please do not do that. Do not do that. It's not a good idea. I promise you, it's not a good idea. But what you can say is,  okay, this behavior is hurting me and it continues to happen.

And you might have that knowledge within yourself to know,  yeah, this isn't normal. I know this isn't normal. This is not how my friend's partner responds. This is.  A big reaction for a small thing. It's not normal. Okay. Then the second thing would be  I'm going to present this to them and tell them their behavior is hurting me.

And let's see if they can change. Let's see if they want to change. Let's see if they  even  care that they're impacting me in this way.  And then you can see how they respond. A lot of times you get blamed.  But seeing this and beginning to see it, it begins to like, kind of like pull the blindfold off your eyes.

And then now you're seeing it clearly, you're seeing it for what it actually is.  And so that's what I think  begins to help us change, right? That kind of puts us to a path of like either learning more about it, reading about it, looking at it,  because all of this is psychological abuse. It's courts of control.

You know, and remember, like, a healthy partner wants to hear you, right? An abusive partner wants you to submit. They want their thinking to be paramount, which doesn't leave any space for you.  I hope that this was helpful.  Please remember to prioritize your safety and your mental well being. And that does mean setting boundaries.

seeking support. You can reach out to me. I work with people on this all the time in a validation call or  sometimes people will like book a validation call and we'll like talk through the thing. And while I'm listening, I can say, you know, I'll always say something like, look, I cannot diagnose them.

They're not here. They're, I mean, I don't have the qualifications for that, but what I can tell you are, these are the behaviors I'm seeing. And so if you read on that, it might begin to help you because it might also help you. How do I set boundaries with this person? I'm married to this person. This relationship is not going to end tomorrow.

What can I do  so that it stops breaking me?  And so if you need support, you always, always can reach out to me at Jessica at Jessica Knight coaching. com or at emotional abuse coach. com where you can find my offerings, my courses, my sub stack. And if you need support, like this really is such a place to start.

If this episode resonates with you, I highly recommend listening to the ones I have about the cycle of abuse, because once you can begin to see yourself in the pattern, that's when you can begin to break free from the pattern.